[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4688: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4690: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4691: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4692: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
reefphilippines.com • View topic - going sump from sumpless

going sump from sumpless

If you are new to the hobby and would like to have some personalized attention, this is the forum to post your questions

going sump from sumpless

Postby Boracay » Mon May 26, 2014 4:27 pm

Good day RP specially with our Gurus and experienced members who may have time to read this. I was a fresh water tank keeper since I was a kid, circa 80s pa :lol: yun We were encouraged by my father to co manage our 50 gallon tank back then. We were 3 boys doing all sort of chores but as the eldest, I was given not just the responsibility, but the heavy lifting and scrubbing work :roll: it was the usual gold fish tank and since our dad left us to take care of the tank, it was always in a swing from good to bad condition. That very tank actually still runs today at my brothers place in QC. Matibay din sya ha.

Anyway, from 2001 until 2008 I was into Flowerhorn until some idiot dosed it with a bubbly substance that left me heartbroken. I nurtured that guy from barely 3" up until it was more than 12" with a full bulbous head :cry: poster boy pa naman. Then my other champ Flowerhorn gifted to us, was evicted by my MIL after someone told her it was malas inside the house, oh crap!

Last December, I finally gave into my wife's kulit to get a SW tank, she had an uncle who had a 300 gal tank that has never slipped out of her memory.

Thing is, I have always discouraged her about this, I knew how tedious the cycling and maintenance of SW tanks. I keep telling her about my cousin who gave up his tank when he couldn't maintain parameters and just concentrated on Tech diving instead, and that guy was a geek and I'm hardly anywhere near his dedication then.

Well it's the usual Cartimar experience, half truths and half info makes you buy into the instant reef tank. We got the Aqua One 80 gal model (measured dimesions with actual water line approximately 70 gal). There was a lot of live rocks and the substate was broken corals as it was a OGF-Undergravel system. LS was around 14 pieces of various corals and 18 different kinds of fishes that mostly died in the next 5 days.

I was pleasantly surprised that my tank didn't die on me in the first 2 months, with only weekly cleaning of the OHF media and scrubbing off the first spots of algae on my glass and topping off using deep-well water of about 2 liters. Oh, and I did 2 major rock scape dismantling, first to catch a pesky tiger fish that nearly annihilated the population and second to catch an angel fish that did the same.

The problem started when I let my 4 year old daughter do the feeding on my 3rd month, it's hard to say no to her being an only child. I guess this, the onset of the summer heat and that one particular week that I forgot to clean the OHF media as we had a medical emergency that screwed up the water and triggered a lot of die offs. By that time, the tank was also well stocked already.

I did a partial water change but my second mistake was not removing the dying corals immediately, I was hoping for them to recover but I guess they only made the tank recover less than what it could have. I was actually waiting for the tank to die by this time, I had plans already for FW. The water cleared up but Nitrates was 160ppm

After a week I did a major water change, and things began to get better. Bio load was now low of about 5 corals and just 2 surviving fishes. I added 10 snails and 2 gobies as CUC. Coraline growth was more pronounced after a week. NItrate 80ppm.

When my wife asked me what else I needed to do for the SW tank, I said, if we are going to do this, let's expect to do this the proper way. Otherwise I told her about my FW plans. All the way, she said, tuloy and dusa ko, patay!

With the summer heat soaring, the tank was registering even past 32deg, so I looked for a chiller as dosing with ice in the afternoons was proving futile. The chiller helped a lot, maintaing 29deg, I saw the surviving LPS began being stable and extending. I slowly added LS again and they are still fine, except for a plate coral that was ruined by this big snail that I added and now expelled :lol: After 2 weeks with the chiller on and target feeding only, I did another major WC and nitrates is now 40ppm.

I am now going to go with a sump/skimmer and refugium.

My first problem is my very limited space under the DT. Its going to have to be 2 separate sections as my cabinet is partitioned into two.

Another issue will be how I deal with the present OHF-undergravel filter.

Sump/refuge
The DT dimension is a bow design 39" wide, 24' tall and average of 18' deep. Net of cabinet walls, the footprint I will have is 2pcs - 12" x 15" for a sump/refuge.

The first one will be where my drain drops in, skimmer and an obligatory powerhead to transfer water to the next tank.

The second tank will be the refugium and the return pump. I know, its going to be tight, really tight. Unless I do this on another longer partition-less cabinet, its the only way there is now. So be it, as It's going to be a lot better filtration than what I have now.

OHF-Undergravel filter
I am trying to avoid disturbing the rockscape sana, but also afraid if I just abandon the undergravel filter tray, it might be a nitrate factory, are my assumptions correct? Or will the tray be just a big hollow space under the substrate.

If I cannot abandon the tray,my idea is to connect the OHF pump to a 3/4" pvc as my drain together with another 3/4" line that will be a dipped inside a overflow box (siphon lang) I will have made for added volume and catch surface water dirt and floating detritus once I get a wavemaker into action.

Given that I always use NSW and may have some extra live rocks in the DT that can be requisitioned to the refuge, is this going to be a matter of plug and play or do I have to cycle the sump/refuge separately before I pipe it in the DT ? My gut tells me to just go ahead, but my head says ask the experts first and pray that someone invites me for a tank tour :lol:

Sorry for the long rambling RP, but someone's gotta save me, and it's nothing better but a fellow Pinoy doing it.
Boracay
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:28 pm

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby seth » Tue May 27, 2014 8:48 pm

Hi, Boracay! Interesting read! And you are lucky your wife is enthusiastic with the hobby. It's the other way around for most cases. :lol:

Regarding the UGF, does it have anything in it? Do I understand correctly thar it is just a plastic tray below the sandbed? If it doesn't have any floss or media inside, you can just leave it alone. It won't become a nitrate or nutrient sink assuming you have sand on top of it anyway.

As for transferring excess old liverocks from the main tank to the new sump, it should be fine.

Marami kang mapupuntahan na tanks around here. Kung malapit ka. :)
Cheers,
Marty


User avatar
seth
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 2941
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:04 am
Location: Pinas

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby Boracay » Tue May 27, 2014 10:18 pm

Thanks for your reply sir Marty, her SW tank is one of the few things I can actually complain about to my wife, if not the only one ! hahaha :lol:

What I have now is the UGF pump sends the water to a OHF. if I could decommission them and just have a siphon overflow to save on electricity and tidy up the DT, it would be swell.

The UGF tray luckily is empty, it's good to know it won't do harm if ever I abandon it under the substrate, which is another subject altogether :evil: it's broken corals :evil: which from what I have read is not ideal if not already a total disaster waiting to happen. Can you enlighten me some more on this point sir Marty? Has there been no successful DT with a broken coral substrate?
Boracay
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:28 pm

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby seth » Tue May 27, 2014 10:55 pm

How large are they? The problem with crushed coral/CC substrate (especially large grains) is it will collect silt/detritus which can be the cause of nutrient buildup (nitrates/phosphates) and in time could lead to problems such as algae infestation, that is why it is not generally recommended. If you have a problem with nitrates even with generally low bioload and aggressive weekly WCs, then accumulated crap in the substrate may be the culprit.

I have friends that use aquarium gravel (aka #5 sand in landscaping stores, the grain size of the pebbles are almost crushed corn to pea-sized) with no nutrient problems because they vacuum the substrate frequently (almost every water change) The primary purpose of the substrate here is mainly for aesthetics, not much for denitrification/biological fitration (depth is usually very shallow, at about 1" deep at most). I also have a shallow sandbed (SSB) tank, with varying grain sizes. I also vacuum most parts of the sand just to keep it from collecting too much crap. Wouldn't do it if my sandbed was deep though.

If you want a stunning example of a shallow sandbed reef using #5 gravel, just look at papa jourdy's tank. :lol:

If the size is larger than that, and the depth is more than an inch you may have a hard time cleaning that up.

If it the size of the crushed corals are really large, I think you would be better off removing the substrate. You may also leave it, just vacuum it at least once in a while.

No need to call me sir, I'm just a regular dude. :)
Cheers,
Marty


User avatar
seth
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 2941
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:04 am
Location: Pinas

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby Boracay » Tue May 27, 2014 11:18 pm

Bro Marty :) yung tank mo hindi pang regular dude kasi :D

Sinilip ko yung paradise tank ni bro Jourdy, and yes bro, it is around that size if not a bit bigger pa, kaya lang yung kanya malinis :lol:

Well, I will try to implement my changes first, I usually vacuum every water change nowadays, if hindi na mag improve even with the skimmer I am putting in the new sump (which I yet to finalize ang design), then I guess major major na make over ang DT ko ! Nakaka buy ba ng live sand, or hindi naman necessary live since SSB naman?

Mangangamoy salonpas na naman unan ko kung sakali :lol:
Boracay
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:28 pm

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby seth » Tue May 27, 2014 11:40 pm

Somehow "live" na ring yang sand dahil sa bacteria, algae at pods, yun nga lang di gaya ng talagang livesand na maraming microfauna.

Unfortunately, walang nagbebenta ng livesand dito. But you can always just ask for a bit of livesand from fellow reefers. Even a small cup can be good enough. Sa SSB usually di na problema iyan since bumabawi naman sa liverocs or other media. Malaking bagay rin ang skimmer at ang refugium or even ATS. :)
Cheers,
Marty


User avatar
seth
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 2941
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:04 am
Location: Pinas

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby Boracay » Wed May 28, 2014 9:40 pm

I have been reading up on DSB and SSBs and how to apply the infos I gathered, it points to a very sad fact, I need to remove my coral substrate :oops: oh well

So the plan is to put the sump/skimmer/fuge on line as first phase, then break up the rockscape to get all the corals and UGF tray in order to put in the SSB of about 1.5"-2" max only as second phase. Would it be better the other way around?

Would it be too much stress for my LS to handle this in one go, or should I have a week or two to rest them a bit? I recon there's not much disturbance in the first stage since it's in the substrate swap where they will have a lot of trouble. Baka naman ako ang talagang na stress out :lol: at kailangan ng break :lol:
Boracay
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:28 pm

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby znerenz » Wed May 28, 2014 11:27 pm

The way I see it, you have two choices

1. All-in-one move = less stress to your tank's inhabitants but greater stress on you
2. Phases = more stress to your tank's inhabitants but lesser stress on you

Decisions, decisions :mrgreen:
znerenz
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:10 pm

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby mindfreak » Wed May 28, 2014 11:51 pm

just make sure you have detoxifier (either Seachem Prime or Alpha) right on standby in any eventuality that you have an ammonia spike while migrating to your new setup. :)
With Gratitude,
Image


- Everything is relative in this hobby.
What works for me may not work for you.
User avatar
mindfreak
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:47 pm
Location: Caloocan / Novaliches / Fairview

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby Boracay » Thu May 29, 2014 8:58 am

Thanks guys for the valuable tips, I will put them on my list :D gusto ko na matapos Ito para maka resbak ako Kay mrs :lol:

Bros question, for a 70 gal DT, is 18 gal water volume in the sump enough? 5.5 gal in the drain/skimmer side and 12.5 gal in the fuge return side. I'm about to have them made later today.
Boracay
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:28 pm

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby mindfreak » Thu May 29, 2014 9:15 am

well you can get away with an 18gals, iba nga sumpless pa and they are succeeding eh. but ideal sump if it is 70 gals is 30-50 gals. the bigger the better para sa mas additional na water volume. and you also should anticipate the size footprint of skimmer and reactors if ever man mag upgrade ka in the future. the last thing you want is hindi magkasya yung skimmer (if it is internal) sa chamber mo. :)
With Gratitude,
Image


- Everything is relative in this hobby.
What works for me may not work for you.
User avatar
mindfreak
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:47 pm
Location: Caloocan / Novaliches / Fairview

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby Boracay » Thu May 29, 2014 11:20 am

Good point there bro. If not for the LS/ bio load we dream of, Ayos na sana, but orders are orders :lol:

I actually accounted for the skimmer water level of only 7" in the first tank so it's 7":12":15"=1260 cu.in. = 5.5 gal. Housed in a 12:15:16 glass tank and 2nd tank with 16" water level x 12x15 = 2880 cu.in. = 12.5 gal housed in tank measuring 12x15x20".

I have 27.5inches clear height inside the cabinet.

Proposed Filtration System water flow :

Overflow box > Drain line 2 pcs - 3/4" PVC > 1.5" PVC >

> tank #1 > partition 1 skimmer
> partition 2 power head 800L/H for transfer to tank #2

> tank #2 partition 1 return pump > 1" tee back to tank #1 skimmer
> 1" tee with ball valve for slower flow to tank #2 partition 2 refugium > tank #2 Partition 1
> 1" tee spare with ball valve for reactor or UV Sanitizer > tank #2 partition 1
> 1" tee with ball valve to display tank > bypass ball valve
> ball valve > chiller > ball valve >return to DT

I will put a float switch at tank #1 if it's not too expensive just in case the drain line looses siphon, to control all pumps in the sump. I have minor back flow from DT as my return line is dropped in from above the water line.

Where can I have a black acrylic overflow box made? Does cartimar glass stores have them? I'm from makati btw.
Boracay
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:28 pm

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby seth » Thu May 29, 2014 7:39 pm

Whatever plan you choose, aside from detoxifier/s, have large batch of premixed saltwater and activated carbon on hand. :)
Cheers,
Marty


User avatar
seth
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 2941
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:04 am
Location: Pinas

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby Boracay » Thu May 29, 2014 9:57 pm

thank you bro Marty, wasn't able to have the sump fabricated earlier, got tied up with errands, I might have time to do plumbing works tomorrow and drop by carti to look for a fabricator.
Boracay
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:28 pm

Re: going sump from sumpless

Postby Boracay » Fri May 30, 2014 6:48 am

hummm, I just realized my water volume on tank #1 is going to be 13 high x12x15" = 10.1 gal and makes my total water volume in the sump/refuge 22.6 gal, I forgot that the skimmer was going to be placed on a platform as suggested by sir Peter.
Boracay
reefphilippines member
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:28 pm

Next

Return to New to the hobby

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests